The Case of the Black Fist, Spiders in the Sperm and a Salamander in the Brainstem

Exploring a Physical Developmental Issue in the Imaginal Domain




Fred C. Olsen, M.Div. Copyright July, 1993

Session Transcripts: Part 4, Session 6.


This is the sixth session with J. Session length 2.5 hours Total Hours 15.5 since the beginning of our work.


J: Well, everything seems to be holding really well.

F: How's your energy?

J: Uhh, it's coming back.  I was, I told you I was flat on my back on Wednesday, Thursday, I just kind of, at least didn't stay in bed, but I didn't do an awful lot, except I read and cooked dinner.  That was about it. (laughing)  Yeah. Everyday, I seemed to get a little more energy, so that's good.  Until I started to see you again, (laughing) and then, you know, all that drainage out of my brain seems to keep getting less and less.  It's still coming.  There's this one spot where it seems to be more concentrated than any place else, but it seems to keep getting less and less, so maybe it's going to do it.

F: The salamander's not getting tired of it?

J: No, I was real concerned about the salamander because it just seemed like it was this never ending...,but uhm, I think, if we have time we might go back and see if we can do something.  It seems like it's kind of drying up on its own.  It's just kind of taking it's sweet time, but every time it seems to be a little less, a little less, a little less, a little less, so that's good.  The swelling in the neck, I haven't seen any.  That seems really good.  The blister's still gone.  The brain seems to be sitting up higher.  Now, I'm not sure if it's up higher, but I can feel it, what seems to me like it's in the right place.  But, I can also see over here this little spot where this little pool with the salamander swam around.  That's still there, but it seems to be getting smaller too, but it's still there.  I think stuff's just kind of moving, and I think...

F: You actually feel things physically?

J: I did up until probably Monday, maybe Sunday.  I could feel right at the base of my skull.  I could just feel, what's the best way to describe it?  It's like Calistoga water.  You shake it, and you can see the bubbles bursting at the top. That's kind of what it felt like up there, like it was just…

F: Bubbling.

J: Yeah, things were moving around, and it was almost all the time, you know.

F: Hmm.

J: I don't know for sure that what, I mean I can't think of a time when I checked it and it wasn't like that for five or six days after I saw you.  I had a couple sessions with J. J.  Stuff seems to be moving there, somebody commented on my leg.  They said they thought that it wasn't dragging as much, but I don't notice it.  I think that's still the same.  So, that's what I want to work on today.  I'm not sure where it is, I'm not sure if it's in the hip, if it's in the groin, if it's in the knee.  I'm not sure where it is.  When J.J. worked some on me what she says is, I guess, the natural state is for your foot to be more… mine tends to point down more than it ought to.  Now, what the doctor….  Let's see if I can do it here.  You can't really see it, but what the doctors see is when I do this....  l can really see it if I lie on my back and do it, when I do this, this one rather than coming straight up, kind of shakes a little bit, it kind of goes….

F: I noticed the shaking...

J: And that is what they, yeah, you can see it.  It doesn't come straight up, it kind of goes up like that, sideways.  So, that's what they see, and then when they do this same thing, the normal foot goes down, and mine goes up.  So, that's what they see.  What I notice is just that when there's a little tiny bit of unevenness in the concrete, and I hit it just right, that I'll trip.  I don't lift that foot very high, I drag it, so, that's what I notice.  I'm still tripping over uneven concrete.  So, that's what tells me that nothing's really changed there.  But, it also doesn't bother me, because that's a symptom of what's the blister in my neck and then, I think what has to happen is that whatever's happened with those nerves have to get healed before there's any change in the leg.  My elbows and my hands, uh, they're about the same.  They don't seem to… and it might be the same thing.  It might be that that takes some time.  But, it's almost like now, I don't know what to visualize, because I've always, I've looked at the blister and put energy there and I've looked at…, and I put energy there, and I go there, I still put energy there just to be safe, but, uhm, you know, there's not something that I can really concentrate on.

F: Are you putting more energy into the more creative...?

J: Yeah, oh, I should show you this book that I've got.  It is so neat.  Maybe you've seen it.  What this book does is, it has you draw, and it has you have conversations.  You right with your dominant hand as yourself and then you write with your left hand as your child.  There's a whole bunch of exercises.  It had me draw a picture of my inner child, the feelings that I've been having, uhm, what the inner child wants most.  And then you have this conversation.  You know, you talk using the left and right hand stuff.  I don't know how creative that is, but….

F: That's great.

J: It's fun, I really enjoy doing it and it...

F: A. Cappacione? There's quite a bit of work going on with the inner child stuff.

J: Yeah, there was a whole shelf of stuff, but, this one I liked because it was real interactive as opposed to a lot of what was just reading and kind of left brain stuff.  I don't need any more of that. (laughing)

F: So you're doing more drawing?

J: Yeah, I did.  I can show you some of the stuff I did.  I mean, you draw with your left hand.  You draw with your inner child.  What they say is, whatever you're dominant hand is, you use the other hand, and it's supposed to activate the inner child, so, you draw....  This is my inner child (shows picture).  The writing that I had here said, it's supposed to be sad, but it looks more angry.  As I wrote, I said," no, I'm really mad, because you're always ignoring me.  I'm really tired of being ignored.  Stop it (laughing).  It's kind of neat.  Then, oh, then, you ask your child,"What do you want most, right now?"  My inner child said "I want you to be well, so your necks all well.  And here's the picture of my alligator and my salamander and my whale and that's my panther, my lion.  Then there's just music and dancing.  That's my flute that I just got…. Ohh, my turtle then, it asks just to draw feelings that you had.  So, this was, I was really tired, so, here's me... the mate me, with the weight of the world on my shoulders.  It's all left-handed stuff.  And then, feeling blue, but this doesn't look very sad to me.  That's kind of what I drew.  And then J.J, and then fear, but that doesn't look like fear to me, but that's what

I drew.

F: A tight jaw, more surprise…

J: Yup, yeah, that's it, it looks more like surprise than...  Oh, then you're supposed to draw you're vulnerable child. Here's me down in the corner, and all these little like boogy-men.  That's as far as I've gotten.  After the, I'm supposed to have a conversation with my vulnerable child, there were a lot of detractions and she said,” I don't want to do this now." (laughing)  So, we didn't do it.  I'll do it on the beaches of Maui.  Anyway, it's fun, it’s great.  I'm having a great time.

F: Good, so, you sense this will be your last session before you leave.

J: Yeah, we're definitely going to take off.  We'll decide today, but it'll be either Friday or Saturday.  I think it will be Friday.  I just have to do stuff about...

F: So, you might want to do some phone work?

J: Yeah, yeah, I think I'm familiar enough with you that it will be okay.  You know, I was worried at the beginning that I wouldn't have a..., you have to have a certain amount of rapport to do the phone lines. (laughing)

F: Actually, I've done a lot of work with people I've never seen.

J: Oh, really?

F: I got my early experience working on a crisis hotline.

J: Ahh.

F: I spent five years doing night shifts on a crisis hotline.

J: What kind of crisis hotline?

F: Suicide, alcohol crisis, drug abuse, family violence, everything.

J: Oh, really?

F: I was doing this work over the phone with people in suicidal crisis.

J: That’s where you got your combat duty. (laughing)

F: I got some real hands on training there, yes.

J: Yeah, no kidding.

F: When all the normal stuff we were supposed to do, active listening, problem-solving, and so forth didn't work, then I would use this process, if it fit in.

J: Oh, so that's kind of the roots of the development of it, huh?

F: Not specifically, but it was like good practice, because I'd already been doing the process, but in that context....

J.: Yeah, you get a lot of tries, huh?

F: At three o'clock in the morning, the phone rings.  Somebody's going to blow their brains out.  Of course, at that point, I'm not using dream reentry, but someone who's puzzled by their crisis, "Why am I suicidal?" I can use the reentry process and quickly track what is going on.

J: Hmmm.

F: Yeah, we have two hours left on your time, so...

J: Mm hmm.

F: So, where would you like to start?

J: I want to just kind of explore this leg to see what we find.

F: Go there and...

J: I get two… (long pause)  Maybe we should just take it a piece at a time. I get something in the ankle.  There’s still something in the knee.  I think, it's almost like it's at the joints, in the ankle and the knee, the groin.  There might be something in here.

F: Do you want to start at the bottom or...?

J: I think I want to start, I think I want to start either at the ankle or in here, the shin.

F: Okay, so, when you go there...

J: I feel tightness.  I see.., l don't think I see anything.

F: Do you feel the tightness, like in the shin?

J. Behind the shin.

F: Behind the shin, what's that tightness feel like?

J: In front of the shin too, I guess.  I think it's more in front of the shin.

F: So you feel that tightness in front of the shin.

J: Mm hmm.

F: How big is that?

J: Uhmm, let's see, it comes from like here to here.

F: Over the whole span of the muscle?

J: Yeah, maybe two inches below the knee and then all the way down.  I can feel it to the ankle.

F: So, when you move toward that tightness, what comes into view?

J: I can't see anything, it's just dark.  I don't see anything.

F: Can you see the darkness?

J: Yeah.

F: How big is the darkness?

J: It takes up the whole space.  All I can see is dark.

F: Is there a sense of density of it or, more like a screen?

J: No, it has depth, uh, soft depth.  It's kind of like a pillow, a firm pillow.  And it's deep, I can't see, it's bigger than a pillow, it's smaller than a house, smaller than a car.  It's maybe four feet deep.

F: It's bigger than a pillow, smaller than a house, smaller than a car and about four feet deep, so it's like a hard pillow.  Where are you watching it from?  Where are you located?

J. I'm in front of it and I can kind of walk over to the side of it.  So, I can see how deep it is.

F: How old are you there?


J: It's now.

F: And what are you wearing?

J: I'm wearing what I have on a sweatshirt and….

F: And what do you feel as you walk around?

J. I'm curious.  What is this?

F: Okay, does it have any boundaries?

J: As I walk around to the side, I can see the side of it, the right side of it.  As I walk around to the left side of it, it just keeps going and going, hmm, I can't see the end as I go around to the other side.

F: So, where are you now?

J: Kind of on the side of it going around to the back of it.  Now, it goes on forever that way.

F: Hmm, so it like goes on forever, and....

J: And I can see, it's like I can come around to the side of it, it's like four feet long.  Then it goes back, and I can't see.  It turns into like ah, like a cloud, like smoke.

F: So, further out it's like a cloud, or smoke, and closer in its heavier?  How tall is it?

J: Again, as it goes up, it becomes, like a cloud.  It just kind of dissipates, but it goes up like a ten story building.

F: Hmm, before it turns in...

J: Maybe it's not quite that tall, three stories, like a big house.  It turns into just clouds, white clouds, it's grey and the grey just gets lighter and lighter.

F: And what would you like to do with that three story building?

J: If I put a lot of light on it, let's see what happens, sunlight, sunlight makes it smaller, not as tall.

There's this one piece in the front, it just stays.

F: Okay.

J: It's still kind of smoky, cloudy, but it's, it's like real low to the ground, like two inches off the ground now.  I can see kind of light fog everywhere, except in front of it, is real dark.  It didn't work for that.  I think I can maybe just take a stick and roll it up on the stick.

F: Okay, so you can roll it up on a stick.

J: I can, but it's a big roll, it's like a big roll of carpet.

F: Mm hmm, how did that get there, and when?

J: Something dark, like a shadow, I don't know.  It doesn't seem to be growing, it's just there.

F: If you traveled back in time, could you discover where it started?

J: I just get this image of like a little hole out of the ground.  This smoke starts coming out and makes this long feeder that just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

F: So, there's this hole in the ground, can you see the hole in the ground?

J: Let me see, I think I do.  It's so perfectly round that I can't believe it's in the ground.

F: So, perfectly round that you can't believe it's in the ground.

J: There's a big fire under it.

F: Fire in the ground?

J: It's where the smokes coming from, it's a blaze.

F: Where is that blaze in your body?

J: Oooh, right in my gut.

F: Go to where the blaze is.

J: It's really an angry fire.  Whoa, it's really hot, it's really angry.

F: Okay, see the fire.

J: Yeah.

F: Where are you?


J: I'm in front of it.

F: How old are you?

J: I'm a child.

F: Do you have an age?

J: I'm trying to figure it out, l think I'm four.  Eleven's too old.  Six is too old.  It's three or four.

F: So this is the four year old, and what is she wearing?

J: That same flowered dress, with the white flowers.

F: And what's this picture?  What's the setting?

J: It's a dark cave.  She's standing there all by herself.  The fire's getting smaller, now. I wonder what's happening to the fire.

F: Hmm, what's she doing?

J: She's just looking at the fire.  She's not scared, she's more curious.  She's looking at it, like if she were at the zoo, looking at an animal in the zoo, something like that.

F: so, where's the origin of this fire? (long pause)  Is this the four year-olds anger, or does the anger come from somewhere else?

J: When I try to see the origin, I try to see, when was this fire small?  I get another hole in the ground.  I look in that hole. I just see another fire.

F Where in your body is that fire?

J. It's in my sex organs.

F: Hmm, so, when you go there, what do you see?

J: I see reds and oranges, it's not a fire.

F: It's not a fire?

J: No, I see reds and oranges.  There’s a line that comes across diagonally.  I can see orange and then a darker orange.  It becomes red.  The colors are more pronounced than a rainbow, but it’s sort of like that.  On this side it's yellowish white.


F: So it's a band of red and orange, and on the lower side it's white.

J: On the other side it's darker.

F: Are you there in that picture?

J: I'm standing in front of it, looking at it.

F And how old are you?

J: Eleven, four's too young, it's more between eleven and thirteen.

F: So, the eleven and thirteen year old is there.

J: Mm hmm.

F: And what does she feel about that band of color?

J: It makes her nervous.  It's like if you knew the early signs of an earthquake, and that was it, you would think there was an earthquake coming.  Or whatever the skies look like before a tornado.  There's apprehension and fear.

F: So there's an earthshaking force coming, and this eleven to thirteen year-old is feeling that.

J: Mm hmm.

F: What does she need?

J: If she just took the band away?

F: She took it away?

J: No, I'm just saying, if the bands were taken away would that do it?  She needs protection.

F: From?

J: Whatever this thing that is coming, or stop this thing from coming.  I think we need to stop this thing from coming.


F: What is this thing that's coming, that's threatening the eleven to thirteen year old?


J. It feels more like a tornado than an earthquake.  Yeah, it's like a....

F: Like a tornado?

J: Lots of wind and stuff getting whipped up and blown away.

F: So things get whipped up and blown away.  Is that how the eleven to thirteen year-old felt, feel?

J: Yeah, that's how it feels, like that's what's going to happen.

F: She's going to be blown away by this tornado?

J: Uhm, yeah, and everything around her is going to get whipped up and blown and,

F: Do you remember when you felt that way?

J: Whipped up and blown away?

F: The storm's coming, everything's going to get whipped up and blown away.

J: The anticipation, feeling I had lots' of times, this morbid feeling, I mean the biggest one for me is that something would happen to my husband, and my husband would get killed.

F: Hmm.

F: It happened to me when my mother died.

F: How old were you when your mother died?

J. Twenty-two.

F: Did it happen when you were eleven to thirteen?

J: When I was eleven to thirteen is when I got molested.  Actually, from eleven to thirteen is when I got molested. It was also when my grandfather committed suicide.

F: Things got stirred up and blown away.  You got blown away at eleven to thirteen.

J: Yeah.

F: So, you want to go back to that eleven to thirteen year-old, when she was feeling blown away, her grandfather died and molestation.

J: My dad also started a business that didn't go well during that time.

F: And you were just coming into your sexuality.

J: Mm hmm.

F: All that stuff was converging, a pretty stormy time.

J: Yeah, I have a hard time with it because it was kind of an Ozzy and Harriett, I mean, from the outside, it was like an Ozzy and Harriett family, right?

F: Mm hmm, From the outside?  But from the inside?

J: There was a very supportive extended family, real close, and all that stuff, from the outside, yeah.

F: Right, but from the inside?

J: Even from the inside on the surface, you know.

F: Mm hmm.

J: Just nobody believed me about being molested, and uh...

F: Nobody believed you when you were four either.

J: That’s right

F: So, the four-year-old and the eleven to thirteen year-old have something in common.  This hole in the ground, fire, anger, a storm that blows us away.

J: That’s right.

F: So, what do those two need right now?

J: I don’t even know.  The solution I’m looking for is some way to be persuasive, or whatever, so people believe them.  I come up with nothing.

F: When you tap into the fire and the wind, what happens?

J: I get fear with the wind.  With the fire I get anger and rage.  But the overwhelming feeling is fear from the wind.  Fear from the wind is the stronger feeling than the rage and anger from the fire.

F: Okay, so tune into that fear from the wind.  And where do you feel it?

J: I feel it here, in my solar plexus.

F: So, go there, and what do you see?

J: I see orange and yellow and a little bit of red.

F: Is there a shape to it?

J: Ha, it's a fire.

F: And where are you in relation to that fire?

J: I'm looking down at it.

F: From where?

J: Up here.

F: Up in the head?

J: Yeah.

F: And the person who is up in the head, what’s happening with her as she watches this fire?

J: I get angry.

F: She gets angry?

J: Yeah.

F: What's she want to do?

J: Explode it, detonate it, blow it up.

F: So, what happens when you detonate it?

J. It gets smaller.  There's a lot of smoke and dust all over the place.  But it gets smaller, gets like a big bonfire.

F: Okay, and then what?

J: I guess, just spray water on it.

F: What happens when you do that?

J: It seems to go out, but I have a feeling it's going to start again.

F: Hmm, okay.

J: I can hear all this sizzling.  There's like a little spark that can start again.

F: Hmm, what would you like to do with that spark?

J: I think I ought to smother it, but I don't want to do that.

F: What would you rather do?

J: Go put it in the Sun.

F: Okay, what happens when you put the spark in the Sun?

J: It makes the Sun brighter.

F: Hmm.

J: It’s out, it's gone now.  It makes the Sun really bright.

F: So, when you bring your anger outside, and expose it to the light, it's really bright, isn't it?  What's happening with that sunlight now?

J: It’s nice and bright and warm.

F: Go back up to the surface of those two holes.  What do you see?

J: The first one, the second one, I mean.

F: The deeper one?

J: Yeah.

F: The one around your sexuality?

J. Yeah, it’s black in there.

F: What would you like to do with that space?

J: I think, just close up the hole.

F: So what happens when you close it up?

J: Hmm, you can't walk over it, or you'll fall in the hole.

F: So what would you like to do with that space?

J: We could just expose the hole?

F: What happens when you expose the hole?

J: It rains and makes a waterfall, it's real steep.

F: Where are you in the picture of the waterfall?

J: Off to the side of it.

F: And how old are you?

J: I'm an adult.  I'm younger than I am now.  I think I'm twenty-eight.

F: Okay, so this is the twenty-eight-year old.

J: It might be thirty-two, right around there, twenty-eight to thirty-two.

F: Okay, how does that twenty-eight to thirty-two-year old feel next to the waterfall?

J: Good.

F: It's better than closing up the hole?


J: Mm hmm.

F: How does she feel in her body?  What's she wearing?

J. She's still wearing her business suit and carrying an attache case.  She wishes she was in a pair of shorts, a tank top and a pair of tennis shoes.

F: What does she need to be in that outfit?

J. I can just change her clothes  That's better.

F: She likes it better.

J: She just wants to hike around, climb around the waterfall, pull in negative ions.  The waterfall is getting cleaner.  When it first started to rain it was real muddy and kind of gunky.  Now it's getting real clear, crystal clear and fresh, pure.

F: So has that taken care of both of the holes, or just one?

J: That's just one of them.

F: That's the one with the tornado?

J: Yeah.

F: She's feeling more natural and more flowing, more adventuresome, with that energy?

J: Mm hmm.

F: What about the fire?  You've already put it out in the Sun.

J: Yeah, there's no fire.

F: What does that hole look like?

J: It looks little, teeny, about the size of a dime, a little teeny hole.

F: Okay, what would you like to do with that hole?

J: If we cover it with dirt, the dirt keeps draining down in, you can't close it up.

F: Okay.

J: If we expose it, it's really deep, really deep

F: What's down there?

J: A big cave.  I'll fly down in there and see.  There's a river down there, and there's light down there.

F: So, down at the bottom, there's a river and light.  What's it like down there?

J: It's clean and fresh, uhm, lots of little pebbles down by where the little river runs.  There’s sheer cliffs on the other side.

F: Do you like that place?

J: Yeah, the best thing is to open it up and expose it too.  It's like the Grand Canyon.

F: Oh, okay. are you going to Kawaii?

J: No. We're going to Maui.

F: You should go to Kawai to the mini grand canyon on the island.  Just a little aside here.  So, when you expose both of those holes, one’s a waterfall and one's.

J: They come together.  The waterfall becomes part of this whole scene.

F: So, the whole scene opens up.  There's a lot of flowing water, instead of fire and wind.  So, take the feeling, the business woman is in her tank top and shorts, everything's flowing, right?  So, take that feeling back to the thirteen and four-year-old.

J: They don't take it.

F: They don't take it?

J: They don't want to be…, it's like they're skeptics, they don't take it....

F: What do they need to be able to take it?

J: Trust.

F: Trust, so, they learned not to trust when they weren't trusted.  So, what do these kids need in order to trust?

J. Maybe take them with us, fly around the canyon to see what it is like, and hike around the waterfall.

F: Does that work?

J: The four year-old is afraid to fly.  The eleven year-old does okay.  The eleven-year-old can fly around and hike around.  She really likes it.  The four year-old is afraid of both things.

F: So, what does she need in order to trust?

J: Somebody big and strong to take her up that waterfall and to take her flying, somebody who will hold on to her and won't let her fall.

F: You know someone like that?

J: Yeah, my husband.  She's going up the waterfall with him, but she's still scared.

(end of tape)

J: She can't fly by herself.

F: Okay, she's got the support...

J: To fly with somebody.

F: Okay.

J: Yeah, she likes it, she's a little scared, but she likes it

F: What's happening in that part of your body?

J: Uhm, my sex organs seem much more settled than they were ten minutes or a half hour ago.

F: Okay.

J: My solar plexus, uh, it's more settled.  There's still something there.

F: Can you tune into where that is?

J: It's higher than it was before.


F: And what do you see?

J: I just see dark.

F: Is the river and the waterfall still going?

J: Mm hmm.

F: So move up into that darkness, what do you see?

J: It's connected to my throat.

F: So, let's look at that connection to your throat, what's happening?

J: I can't see, I'm trying to, I know that this is connected to the throat, but I can't see the connection.

F: Feel it.

J: I did for a while, but I can't feel it now.

F: Okay, what do you need for that connection to be there?  The river and the waterfall are still flowing.  Then there's this dark area that goes up and connects with your throat, but that's vague right now, it's not clear.  So, let's go up above that.  What's happening up in…

J: My throat.

F: Throat, brain, neck..

J: Well, this is in the front, it's not back here.  It's in the front.

F: Let's go to the back and then move forward.

J: Okay, the back, uhm, I see yellow, uhm, l see the outside.  I see the vertebra.  I’m looking at it differently than I have before.  I see the vertebra.  There's a lot of light there.  It seems pretty malleable, flexible. Uhm, maybe a little tender, but it looks good.  Up at the brainstem and at the base of the brain, it looks like it might be just a tad swollen.

F: What about the spaghetti factory?

J: It's pretty much stopped producing, except there are two strands on the right side that are dripping really slowly. But, it's kind of a funny, rusty, not very healthy looking in there.  It's kind of rusty, decay looking.  When the spaghetti was going, it was all pretty white, you know, it was slimy, but it was white and clean.  Now, it's kind of brownish rusty colored.


F:Okay, what does it need?

J: I'm trying sun light, maybe just a good washing out.

F: Where are your animal characters?

J: Just watching.

F: So, is there a way to wash it out?

J: Yeah, I can just hose it...

F: What's happening?

J: It seems to work, I'm sitting here trying to decide whether to leave the water in, or to siphon the water out.  I just kind of hosed it out and drained it.  Now, I'm trying to decide whether to leave the water in or take the water out.  I guess I should take the water out.

F: What happens when you take it out?

J: It gets nice and shiny clean.  I can't get the water out of that corner.  I'll do it with my hand.  Now it's clean.  I may have to do that periodically.  It doesn't seem to be making anymore spaghetti.

F: So, the fear and frustration is gone.

J: Yeah.

F: Now, you're working on that anger and mistrust.

J: Mm hmm.

F: So, move from the head that's now clear and clean, down toward the throat.

J: Okay, I see brown and orange and black all the way down to my solar plexus where it gets black, pure black. There are browns and oranges at my throat and it just keeps getting darker and darker and then it's black.

F: So, moving from the top down, it gets darker, and it gets black at the base.

J: Yeah.

F And moving from the bottom up?


J: Going from the bottom up, it gets dark and then it gets light and then lighter.


F: Is the river and the waterfall still down there?

J: Yeah, they’re below the dark.

F: So, notice where that dark starts.

J: It's kind of off to the side of the river and the waterfall.  It's like this big canyon, where the river is.  Off where the mountains come up, there's this dark little hole over here.

F: Okay, what would you like to do with that dark little hole?

J: Well, maybe just open it up so that it can be part of the canyon.  Let's see, hmm, when I do that it just all breaks away.

F: What breaks away?

J: The dark hole, it just opens and just disappears.  As I was breaking the rocks around it, it all opened up.

F: What would you like to do now?

J: I need to open up through the esophagus, up to the throat.

F: Mm mhm.

J: It's not made out of rock, it's made out of tissue.  There's all this air whipping up through it, I don't like that...

F: What would you like to do?

J: I keep getting this image of making it into a tree, but that doesn't work.

F: What would it take?  Why wouldn't that work?

J: I get this image of this tree in my throat.

F: What happens if there's a tree in your throat?

J: Then I can't swallow.


F: Ohh, okay.

J: (laughing), Uhm...

F: There was all that other junk in your throat, right?

J: Yeah.

F: All this tissue and darkness.  There hasn't been any flow through there, right?

J: Yeah, right, maybe the tree could scrub it out.

R: So the tree doesn't work.  Can you work from both ends at the same time?

J: The turtles checking it out from the top down.  He kind of likes it in there.

F: What's he do when he's in there?

J. Just kind of a place to hang out.  l can't make the two pictures go together.

F: They don't go together?

J: No, I get the waterfall with the stream and open it up.  That was fine.

F: The brain is clear and clean.  What's happening down your spinal column?

J: It's clean.

F: It goes all the way down the backside, okay.  So, from the brain down to the spinal column and to the base, it's all clear and clean.

J: Mm hmm.

F: So that neurological path is... and when you go from there on down to your feet, what happens?

J: Hmm, I can't go from the top down.

F: Ahh.

J: When I go from the top down l can't figure out how it connects to my leg.  l think it connects at the waist.

F: So, what connects it?

J: The connection up my leg to my spinal column  It connects at my waist.

F: So, when you go to that connection point....

J: Now I see it.  Now, I see it, it looks clean, it looks clear.

F: That's where that plexiglass was, wasn't it?

J: Yeah, right at my waist.

F: But it only goes one direction?

J: Yeah, when it comes back up, fascinating.  When it goes down, it's clear.  When it comes back up-it catches at the knee.

F: It catches at the knee?

J: Mm hmm.

F: Okay, what's that took like now?

J: What I see is dark with this blue, it’s like the connection is blue.  There's little sparks of blue as it goes down.  It comes up, it comes up fine until it comes to the knee, then it stops.  The blue light doesn't come up past the knee.

F: What’s that stopping point?

J: It’s just dark, black.

F What shape is it?

J. It’s kind of oval shaped, it’s thin like a piece of paper.

F: What would you like to do with that oval piece of paper?

J: Let’s see, maybe I should just pull it out.  It doesn't work.  I mean, it comes out but the light still doesn’t come up.  Now, the blue light, let’s see.  It’s an artery that has blue light in it.  There’s something clogged in the artery.

F: Okay, can you unplug it?


J: I'll try to zap it with my zapper.  Nope, I'm trying to siphon it clean.  The siphon takes out the plug, but there's still something there.

F: So, look at what's still there.

J: Now. it looks like a piece of coal.

F: Okay.

J: Seems like I could just pick it up and move it away.  There's still something there.

F: Like a piece of coal?

J: I picked up the piece of coal and moved it away.  There's still something there so that it won't flow.

F: So, journey into that block.  What's preventing the flow?

J: Now it looks Iike a piece of wood.

F: So, paper, coal and wood.

J: I think, I'll drill a hole through the wood.  I think that vein all the way up is clogged up.

F: Hmm, so what do we need to unclog it?

J: I think I’ll just flow it out with some water, siphon it and see if that will....all kinds of brownish mud is coming out

F: So, it’s clearing out?

J: A lot of mud.

F: What do you want to do with the mud?

J: It's slopping all over, I’ll have to clean it up later.

F: Okay.

J. I get images now, that it’s clear and then muddy.  It’s clear and then it’s muddy.

F: Okay, it's getting clearer?

J: No, it's not, just uh....

F: A lot of junk in there.

J: Mm hmm.

F: Where does the junk start?

J: That's just what I'm thinking, maybe I'm not going up high enough.  I'm up to my neck, I'm inthe spaghetti factory again.

F: Ahh, so that's where this starts from, huh?

J: Yeah, let's see if I can clean it out from the spaghetti factory.  I have to blow it out the other way, out the top.  I have to clean up this mess.

F: Blow it out the top of your head?

J: Yeah, do it the other way it's just sort of laying around all over the place.

F: Does that work?

J: What I get is, when it comes out of the spaghetti factory it's clear.  As I look down, it’s not clear.  It’s weird, I start at the knee.  It’s still muddy.  When it comes out of the spaghetti factory, it’s clear.

F: So, it’s getting

J: Clear and clean someplace.

F: Is it getting cear as it goes up or dirty as It goes down?

J: Yeah, there's something, it’s getting dirty someplace.

F: So, what do you see there?

J. A great big mud puddle.


(tape end)


J: It's like a Yellowstone park kind of puddle, you know.  It’s slick mud, a clay kind of mud.

F: Clay mud, what would you like to do with that clay mud?

J: Let's see, maybe we ought to dry it out....dry it out, and then take the mud in its solid form and pack it away.  The water didn't work.

F: Did it work at all?

J: I'm having a hard time getting the liquid out of it.  It's coming, just a moment.  Okay, the clay stuff weighs a ton.  I don't know how to get it out.  Put it on a... Okay, okay, I'm taking a bulldozer and scooping it up and putting it in the bed of the truck.

F: Okay.

J: I think I’d better have three or four bulldozers to take it out, God.  There’s got to be a better way  There's so much of it.

F: Is there some other use for this clay?

J: Build a sculpture with it or something.

F: Is it the kind of clay that can be used for healing?

J: Hmm, yeah it's probably got all kinds of minerals in it.  Getting it out, I have to decide where to dispose of this stuff. I think I'm just going to pile it up outside.  I don't know what to do with it.

F: What happens when you do that?

J: It’s a big pile, okay.

F: What's happening inside?

J: Cleaning up...a big hole, I can't get to the other edge.  I'm tempted to spray water on it but I’m afraid, that didn't work before.  When I try to get down where it's little, I can't get in there with my bulldozers.

F: Well, now that the bulk is out will it hose out?

J: That's what I'm thinking.  Find the other wall first.  There's one corner up here.  I can't get to the wall  There's just more mud, more mud, more mud.


F: Do you need any help?

J: Get in there with a jackhammer and break it loose.  There we go.

F: The jackhammer worked?

J: Yeah, I'm getting these chunks out..... Okay, now we'll try to clean this out again.  It's getting better, I can at

least see the wall now.

F: What's happening...

J: Wait a minute, I'm going to try to just put my waterfall, run my waterfall through.

F: Mm hmm.

J: It's working, it's clean.

F: Good, so, you were able to connect your waterfall up to that area?

J: Mm hmm.

F: What's happening from the knee up?

J: I'm having a hard time seeing, because I see this huge crevice that I've made, cleaning all that out.  So, I just start at the top and I can see the light’s coming down.  I'm going back up to the knee, it's stuck.

F: The rope's gone now, right?

J: Yeah.

F: It's still the same place?

J: Hold it, let's take another look.  Maybe I can make it, I'm stringing it myself.

F: Stringing it?

J: Yeah, this line, it's like a string of blue lights.

F: Ahh, okay.

J: Yeah, I've strung them and they're there, but, hmm..


F: From where to where?

J: From the knee back up.  They go down and they go back up to the knee fine.  Then I strung them from the knee back up to my waist, where they connect, back up to my brain.  They're working, but it's like, don't jiggle, cause they might fall down, or they might go out

F: Let's check out the knee area again. First, let's check out the shin.  What's happening there, now that you've got the waterfall and the river flowing and the Sun got brighter.

J: I think that's fine.

F: So, that black..

J: Mm hmm, everything seems to be fine.  There's a lot of light there.

F: Okay, good, so, there's a lot of light in the shin area.  What's the space look like?

J: You mean where the hole was?  It's gone, it all looks the same, kind of golden yellow, it's yellow with a little bit of orange in it.  It all looks the same color.

F: All the way up to where the holes were?

J: Mm hmm.

F: So in that dimension, it's flowing through?

J: There’s still something a little catchy there, at the knee.

F: So, let's go to the catchy area, tune in to it.

J: Hmm, I get that there's a bone shape.  It's turned the wrong way or something.

F: Okay, do you see it?

J: Mm hmm.

F: Are you there?

J: Mm hmm.

F: And how old are you?


J. Twelve to thirteen-years-old.

F: What's the twelve, thirteen year-old wearing now?

J: Cutoffs and a white shirt.

F: How's she feeling?

J: Cocky.

F: Hmm, okay, she's feeling pretty cocky?

J: An angry cockiness, you know?

F: Mm hmm, so, what does she want to do?

J: Kick that bone.

F: So what happens when she kicks the bone?

J: One image I get is that it hurts her foot.  The other image I get is that the tip of the bone goes flying.

I think it just hurts her foot.


F: And how does she feel when she hurts her foot, from being so cocky cocky and angry?

J:. She just gets mad, mad at herself for kicking the bone.  It's a dumb thing to do.

F: So what does this twelve-thirteen year-old girl need?

J: A safe place.

F: Safe place.

J: Yeah, safe from what?  Safe from, safe from molesters and people that judge and, ought tos and shoulds.

F: Is there a place here like that, that's safe from the shoulds dos and ought tos?

J: (laughing) Holy smoley, uhm, my waterfall and my river are.  It's pretty safe and nice.

F: Is there some way for her to connect to those?

J: Have my husband take her there.

F: He's willing to do that?

J: Mm hmm.

F: Pretty neat husband, is she willing to go along?

J. Yeah.

F: What happens when she goes to the waterfall?

J: She loves it.

F: She feels safe there?

J: Yeah.

F: She doesn't need to be quite so angry and cocky?  How's she feel?

J: She still feels kind of cocky.

F: Is that okay?

J: Yeah, I think so, some of the cockiness is self assuredness, I think.

F: She's feeling some self-assurance?

J: Mm hmm.

F: What's happening in the knee?

J: It's warm, the string of lights is much more secure.

F: Okay.

J: I won't have to worry about the lights going out, or the lights falling down.  They seem to be there.

F; So, they're solid.

J: Yeah.

F: Is it possible to move through the knee, now?

J: Mm hmm.

F: So there's not a blockage?

J: No.

F: What's that bone look like?

J: It's still there, but I think it’s alright.  I can still see it.

F: So, that's where it's supposed to be?

J: It's too long, it's the right bone, it's just a little too long.

F: So, what does that bone need?

J: One is to adjust the body so it can accommodate the longer bone.  I can do that, but I don't think that's the right answer.  I don't know what else to do with that bone.  I think I'm going to try my zapper and see if I can shrink it.  That works perfect.  I hope I didn't shrink it too much.  Maybe I took a little too much off, I can't tell, I think I did.  I'll put a little back.  Okay, okay, I'm going to try that.  Okay, now the bone's good, the lights are good, the spaghetti factory is clean.  The river and the waterfall's still going great.  Hey!

F:How are all your characters doing?

J: Let's see, they were all just watching all this today.  The turtle's checking everything out, checking the spaghetti factory, alligator's swimming in the river.  He likes it a lot, Salamander's swimming in that little pool of water up there.  The panther and the lion are sitting up at the top of the waterfall looking down.  The whales, I don't know where the whales are.  Did I forget anybody?  My twenty- four-year-old, and my twenty-eight-year-old, and my eleven-year-old and my four-year-old, they all like the river and the waterfall, especially the waterfall.

F: Where's the teenager with the three-year-old?

J: They're hiking around it down there.  The teenager's taking the three-year-old with her.  I don't know where the whales went today.

F: Have they gone off some place?

J: Yeah, hmm, you know the most amazing thing was that, because in my visualization, I'd always gone from the

bottom up on my leg, I'd never gone from the top down.  Then everything was okay, going from the top down, but coming back up wasn't.  I always got stuck around the knee and then I got stuck around the waist.  We did the waist one a couple sessions before the knee.

F: What's happening with your father and step mother, in the pictures?

J: I've had some dreams with my father.  Uhh, in the latest dream, I see him and my husband going up in an elevator together.  To me that is a positive sign.  I haven't had any dreams about my step mother.

(end of tape)

F: Those outer scenes, I wonder what it feels like.

J: It feels cleansed, it feels clean, it feels that rather than three agendas going on, there is one....

F: So, you're feeling integrated, and clean and cleansed out.

J: Mm hmm.

F: Your creative side has come to life.

J: Ever so slowly, (laughing), working on it. (laughing)

F: I'd consider it pretty fast. (laughing)

J: Do you? (laughing)

F: It's June first today, right?

J: Yeah.

F: No, second, and our first session was on April 28?

J: Yeah, you're right, it's less than a month and a half.

F: You've done about how many years of work in that time.

J: I wouldn't even know, lot's of years.

F: In normal therapy you might be looking at years of work.

J: Yeah, three to five years of work probably, yeah.

F: Who knows about the body stuff?

J: Amazing how you start with a little something in your neck and you come up with all this other stuff. (laughing)

F: It sort of unravels.

J: Yeah, right, it will be real interesting to see how this does now.  I'm telling myself not to expect miracles right away.  I really do think this takes time.

F: Just stay with the process and allow yourself to be with the salamander, and playing, and keeping all the characters together working with each other and playing with each other.

J: There's no crossover with the animals and the people though.  The animals are actually, I take that back, the panther and the lion connect with the people.  The salamander and the alligator, they're connected, but they aren't connected to the turtle.  The turtles not connected to the whales.  And none of those, the whales have connected to the people.

F: The salamander and the alligator have.

J: Yeah, that's right.  And the whales have, I guess they have.  I mean, I haven't had a scene where they're all together, when they all see each other and they all do that.  The turtle is sort of, l make eye contact with the turtle, at times.  lt's kind of like, you have a party, you have to make a list to make sure you invite them all.  You don't leave one out. (laughing)

F: It would cause havoc.

J: Yeah.

F: Leave the alligator out.

J: Right, right.

F: He'd tear up the party.

J: Ahhh.

F: So, how do they feel about the process you've done over the last month?

J: Uhh, how do they feel?

F: How does your adult feel?


J: My adult feels great, because I didn't even know they were there, you know.  How could anybody feel lonely with this cast of characters.

F: Even on a desert island.

J: All right, (laughing) all of a sudden, it's like how do you, it would be impossible to ever be alone, ever.  Uhm, it's just been real enriching and really empowering to get to know all these people, these characters.  The animals are more, "We've been here all alone, what's taken you so long?" attitude.  The people are relieved and curious about me and about the others and about the animals.  It's all new territory of creatures.

F: So they're all going to get the opportunity to get to get to know each other.

J: To get to know each other, right, and, uh, not ignore each other.

F: Is the twenty-eight year-old having fun working on the project?

J: Yeah, I don't really tune into her, because I don't really want to mess with that right now.  But, she seems content and happy as a lark, doing whatever she's doing.

F: She's also able to get out of her business suit.

J: Yeah, she's ready to go to Maui. (laughing)

F: Hang out with waterfalls and rivers.

J: She always liked to do that, she never took the time.


J. moved with her husband to Maui the week after this final session.  It was reported to me that she went ahead with the surgery that was intended to open up the space crowding her brainstem.  The reported result was that she lost considerable motor skills and required major physical therapy and rehabilitation resulting from the surgery.